From Moana 2 to Mufasa: Inside the World of Jason Poss and Danita Ng-Poss of Symbols of Sound

PH: Moana 2 and Mufasa involve transcribing and localizing music for over 40 languages. Can you walk us through the challenges and intricacies of adapting music for such a wide variety of cultures and languages?

Jason Poss: Localizing large, musical films like "Moana 2" and "Mufasa: The Lion King" requires an international network of skilled professionals. We work with Disney Character Voices International (DCVI) to create a master musical document (sheet music) that accurately reflects the performance of the original, English version of a song. DCVI then distributes that document to their teams around the world who translate the lyrics and re-record the music with actors and singers in their local languages.

Danita Ng-Poss: People always ask, "Why can't they just use the sheet music from the original recording of the film?" That's because there isn't always sheet music. Sometimes songs aren't written down, or the performers improvise while recording. If a song is written down, it may have been edited before it was inserted into the film. Then the film editors may have edited the scene and cut parts of the song out, broken up the song and added dialog in between, removed the background vocals, or even gone back and re-recorded whole sections of the song. By the time the music reaches us, any original sheet music that exists may no longer match what is in the film. That's why they need us to use our ears and musical knowledge to create new sheet music that matches what is in the film.

We must carefully listen to vocal performances in the film and then notate the music in a way that will be instantly clear to the translators and performers in any part of the world. The sheet music we produce must be very accurate because the performers need to exactly match the characters on screen. Sometimes we may need to notate little musical turns or ornaments in the performance with more detail than in typical music notation. That's because the character may be moving or emphasizing something visually in conjunction with the music which is important to the scene. We also need to be aware that not everyone in the world uses the same conventions in music notation, so we have to be clear and specific to avoid confusion or questions that may waste time in the dubbing studio. We are always thinking about how this music will be used by the translators and performers.

Jason Poss: We also must be aware that the localization teams may need to make slight alterations to some details of the music because of the language of the lyrics. We need to make the music clear and precise while also leaving room for the translators and performers to do their job to bring the music alive in another language. It's a fine line between being precise and putting the performer in a straight jacket. Where that line is can be different in each situation.

Danita Ng-Poss: Yes! We want to give the performers a very precise map, and then get out of their way so they can do what they do best.

PH: How does your approach differ when working on animated films like Moana 2 compared to a video game like Hauntii, where the interaction between music and gameplay is key?

Danita Ng-Poss: It depends on the needs of the project. The work we do for DCVI on films like “Moana 2” is specifically music transcription. We are following exactly what is in the soundtrack and providing a way for that to be recreated. On other projects, we may be asked to perform other tasks like orchestrating, creating parts for the musicians to read, or consulting on how to best plan for recording the soundtrack. Those tasks can be affected by the interactive element of the soundtrack.

Jason Poss: Yeah, with games there may be different things to think about. We may have to consider the interactive elements both when orchestrating and planning how things are recorded. For example, we may want to orchestrate a musical color between strings and woodwinds. However, if the game engine is planning to mute the recording of the woodwinds at a certain point, that orchestration won't work. We need to find another way of handling that.

A few months ago we were orchestrating a track for a video game. After it was orchestrated, we learned that the music was going to be cut into short sections. Due to the way it was being recorded, there was going to be reverb in the hall which would make triggering those short sections in the game difficult. We went back and inserted musical breaks in the track so that the recording could be easily edited and the game engine could then trigger or overlap those sections properly. That's the sort of thing you don't have to think about in a non-interactive medium.

PH: Symbols of Sound is known for transforming compositions into live performances. Can you share how your team collaborates with composers, producers, and performers to achieve this seamless transition?

Jason Poss: The soundtrack for the videogame “Hauntii” is a great example. When composer Michael Ward contacted us, he and the publisher were planning to record Michael's song "Home to Home" for the game, and make a video of the recording to promote it. Since this was an independent game with a limited budget, they thought their only option was to record in Eastern Europe; but Michael wanted to see if there was any way to record in Los Angeles. After speaking with Michael, and hearing mockups of his wonderful music, we realized that with proper orchestration and recording techniques, it would be possible to record not only the song, but also the game's most important musical cues in LA. 

Danita Ng-Poss: Because of our experience, we know what is possible with the right people. We could select the right combination of performers, studio, and engineer, and then orchestrate specifically for that group. It would be a challenge, but the talent available in Los Angeles meant we could work quickly with a smaller ensemble to achieve very high quality and still stay within their budget.

We also have to credit Michael Ward for being open to different ideas about how to approach the recording. Some people are fixated on simply hiring a lot of musicians. When we presented Michael with a plan for less musicians, but a team with better skill, experience, and resources; he chose quality over quantity. I think you can hear and see the results in the soundtrack and the video.

PH: As a duo, how do you divide responsibilities in the company? Are there specific strengths each of you brings to the table?

Danita Ng-Poss: We try to function like a submarine crew. We both must be able to do each other's jobs if needed. That means we are always able to check each other, proofread each other's work, and maintain the highest standards of quality. Though, I'm a very detailed person, so I tend to really like to focus on keeping things organized. Do we have a clear record of the thousands of pages of music? A proper log of the instrumentation, doubles, and bar breakdowns for every cue? Is everything labeled consistently? Do we have all those things that make the work smooth and easy for everyone involved?

Jason Poss: Danita is also a workhorse. She loves to put her head down and plow through a ton of music. It's breathtaking how much sheet music she can produce, and still keep it of high quality. I try to set things up on the front end of the process to enable her and everyone else to focus on that part of the work as much as possible. I guess I also enjoy people, so I'm often the one fielding questions from clients or other members of our team. I like making sure everyone has what they need to be comfortable and do their jobs well. Happy people do better work, and quality of work is what sets us apart. Also, we make music. Why shouldn't we all be happy while doing it?

PH: Jason, your orchestration work on The Lord of the Rings is iconic. How have those experiences shaped your approach to current projects, particularly in blending orchestral elements with modern storytelling?

Jason Poss: Gosh, “The Lord of the Rings” changed a lot of things for me, and for films in general. People forget that when the first film was being produced, it was a huge risk. New Line Cinema bet the farm on that production at a time when fantasy films were often flops. Many people thought there wasn't an audience to support a big fantasy film. We don't even think of LOTR as fantasy today. It's a movie version of a work of literature. That's not how it was seen at the time.

The score was also unique in its scope. The way Howard Shore used musical themes was something you commonly see in operatic or classical music. He was drawing inspiration from large works by Wagner, Brahms, and other classical composers, but Howard also worked in simplicity.

I have immense respect for his understanding of how to score a scene. Assisting Howard with orchestrating, I learned so much about how music works with pictures. There were moments in LOTR where he went for grand gestures with huge orchestrations, but he also could pare it back to the simple theme or accompaniment to set a mood while keeping the focus on the story. 

There is a brilliant scene in "Return of the King" where Pippin sings for Denethor during a meal while Denethor's son is riding to his death against the orcs. A less-skilled film composer would have reached into that huge orchestra and tried to hype the emotion of this tense scene. Howard did the opposite. He limited the instruments and then waited until the tension reached a climax. Even then, he sneaks in under everything else. You almost don't notice it in the film. He let the focus be on the images of father, son, and Pippin's sad song. The result is tragic, almost offensive because we hear the sounds of Denethor eating amongst the song and the massacre. Too much music, or too big an orchestration, would have destroyed the intensity of that moment.

Working under Howard on those films taught me that it's not about the size of the orchestra, or even whether there is an orchestra at all. Many projects use other types of ensembles. The art lies in choosing how and when to use the available elements to best tell a story. Every choice must serve the story.

PH: Danita, your work on Dancing with the Stars involves live, dynamic performances. How do those fast-paced, high-stakes experiences influence your contributions to Symbols of Sound?

Danita Ng-Poss: Maybe that's why I like being organized. At the time, we were working on “Dancing With the Stars”, and we had some of the best musicians in Hollywood. We did not rehearse before show day. We would show up the morning of the show, and the first time the musicians would see the music was during the 10-minute "tempo check" they had with each of the dance couples. After lunch, we had one dress run-through of the whole show so the director could check everything on camera. Then we had a break, and we were live on air at 5 pm. The band may have looked at the music no more than twice before performing live in front of millions of people. Plus, they were sometimes having to read their music under flashing lights or smoke. The performers were under a lot of pressure, so it was our job to make sure the music was clear, and also laid out in a way that made their jobs as easy as possible. We said we wanted our music to be readable from across the room.

Everything on the music page also had to be clear because there was no time for questions, discussions, or explanations. If something was out of place, or there was a problem with someone's music that caused us to stop, it wasn't only stopping the band, it was stopping actors, contestants, camera people, lighting, sound techs, everybody. This meant there was no room for errors, and everything had to be double- or triple-checked and organized flawlessly. Precision and clarity is something I bring to all the work I do now. I've seen what a difference it makes.

We were also shooting two shows a week, so I learned how to maintain my mental and physical stamina for 2-3 months at a time with tight weekly deadlines. That's probably why I am able to "put my head down" and focus as Jason mentioned. I also learned the value of planning ahead and being prepared. Sometimes people are surprised at how much preparation and planning we do, but when they arrive at a rehearsal or recording, there are no problems or questions with the music, and the musicians perform well, they understand. I always say that it's a good day in the studio when nobody calls my name. 

That leads to a funny story. On “Dancing With the Stars”, I had a desk backstage, so I was out of sight. That made it hard for me to hear if Harold Wheeler, the music director, called for me because he needed something. He always had to shout my name. One day he started singing the song "Perdido", but changed the lyrics to "Danita" over and over again. Everybody in the band knew the song and started playing it. That became my call, so Harold didn't have to shout. The band would start playing "Perdido" and Danita would appear on stage! The rest of the crew must have wondered why the band would randomly play this old jazz tune.

PH: Your work spans major events like the Oscars and the Grammys. How do you adapt your services to suit such varied contexts, from awards shows to blockbuster films and video games?

Danita Ng-Poss: It's all music, so much of the work is the same. Often the difference is size or scale. On something like the Oscars or Emmys, there can be over a hundred music cues for one show. Multiply that by the number of people in the orchestra and suddenly you are managing thousands of pieces of music. The nice thing is that the systems we have in place for organizing large productions also apply to smaller ones.

Jason Poss: Different types of productions also have different needs. Recordings for films, TV shows, and games happen in a studio, so we don't have to worry as much about where we move during the recording session or if we need to adjust something. During a live TV show, if someone needs something, we have to think about where the cameras are, perhaps wait for a commercial break.

We also may need to augment our team with additional people or companies if, say, a client needs  payroll services, or there is a lot of work that needs to be completed in a shorter amount of time.

What do you see as the future of music preparation and production, particularly with advancements in technology and AI?

Jason Poss: So far AI hasn't had a huge impact on our work. Perhaps someday it will, but what we do is often difficult to break down into a set of repeatable instructions. A lot of decisions have to be made based on context. AI doesn't always do that well. Plus, we need near-perfect accuracy. AI-based on large language models are too risky in that context.

Danita Ng-Poss: Automation through software has drastically changed our workflows over the years. I learned much of my craft from people who started using pen and ink. I can work more efficiently thanks to simple software automation. That will continue to progress and continue to be exciting. Anytime we have repetitive tasks, we look at that as an opportunity to automate.

PH: What has been the most rewarding project you’ve worked on as a team, and why?

Jason Poss: Oh, that's hard. There have been so many rewarding projects. It's not about which projects are high-profile. I think what makes projects rewarding is two things: the music, and the people. We are fortunate to work with some truly wonderful people who also are ridiculously skilled. Together we get to create some beautiful music, and achieve things none of us could have done alone.

Danita Ng-Poss: Recently, “Hauntii”, was a particularly rewarding project, even though it was relatively small. We were able to help a new composer who is delightfully creative and musical, and we were able to collect some of the most talented people in Hollywood, who are also friends. We got to make music together, and we were all laughing and smiling the whole time. What more could you want?

PH: If you could provide one piece of advice to aspiring professionals looking to enter the world of music preparation, what would it be?

Danita Ng-Poss: I'll take this one! Really learn your craft, and always think about the person who will be reading this music for the first time. You have to be able to see things from the point of view of a performer. That means you need to get some experience as a performer to understand that viewpoint. Your job is to enable them to do their job better. 

Oh, and of course, eat well and exercise. It's amazing how many people in our business get so focused on work that they forget their health. Watch out for long hours and too much time sitting at a computer. That can quickly catch up with you!

Jason Poss: Also don't get bogged down in what you think your career should be. You'll miss a lot of opportunities. I never thought this is what I'd be doing, but here I am. I found I'm good at it, and I enjoy it.